tv The Last Word With Lawrence O Donnell MSNBC September 21, 2015 10:00pm-11:01pm PDT
three seats on both sides. that's how worried leadership is about their members desperately trying to touch or get a photo op with the pope. are not just going to have the eliot engel aisle hogs to contend with, there's pope francis. for lack of a better term, he's a touchy pope. not touchy as in testy, he hug, he holds hands. he does not shy from human contact. between pope francis, man of the people, and congressional aisle hogs these designated aisle blockers are going to have their hands full on thursday. pray for them. that does it for us tonight. now it's time for "the last word with lawrence o'donnell." >> luckily for the aisle hogs they are not changing the rules permanently. just for the big day. scott walker's final words as a presidential candidate today were to attack donald trump. donald trump hasn't had time to strike back at scott walker because he's busy tonight having
a twitter war with bill o'reilly. and frank rich will join us to explain the importance of donald trump. >> today i believe that i'm being called to lead by helping to clear the field in this race. >> scott walker, governor of wisconsin, is dropping out of the race. >> i will suspend my campaign immediately. >> what's changed? >> the debate taking place in the republican party today -- >> when the folks of iowa found out the true facts of the job you've done in wisconsin all of a sudden youtubed, number one, now number six or seven in the polls. >> it has drifted into personal attacks. >> you went down the tubes. >> what changed? >> donald trump happened. >> and ben carson to a lesser extent. >> i would not advocate that we put a muslim in charge of this nation. >> the trump style candidacy, the ben carson candidacy. >> sure, donald trump seems racist. >> with this in mind i will suspend my campaign. >> he wants the republican party to coalesce around alternative
to donald trump. >> i encourage other republican candidates to consider doing the same. and then there were 15. today republican presidential candidate scott walker redefined leadership. >> today i believe thattism being called to lead by helping to clear the field in this race so that a positive conservative message can rise to the top of the field. with this in mind, i will suspend my campaign immediately. i encourage other republican presidential candidates to consider doing the same, so that the voters can focus on a limited number of candidates who can offer a positive, conservative alternative to the current front-runner. >> and so wisconsin governor scott walker stopped his campaign in the hope of stopping donald trump.
seven months ago scott walker was the front-runner in the des moines register poll of iowa republicans. scott walker was at 15% in that poll. and donald trump long before announcing his candidacy was down to 1% in that february poll in iowa. in january on this program i suggested that scott walker was looking like the tim pawlenty of this campaign. four years ago tim pawlenty, like scott walker, appeared to have the best republican resume in the field but tim pawlenty fizzled on the republican stage as a spiritless public speaker and debater. scott walker turned out to be a much less authority tative or compelling public speaker than even tim pawlenty, so who knows how low scott walker would be polling today if donald trump didn't happen. of course, donald trump did get into the race. and in the latest cnn/national poll donald trump is the front runner with 24% and scott walker
registered at less than half of 1% in that cnn poll. and so now we have the latest republican strategy for stopping donald trump. have hopeless republican candidates drop out of the race and leave trump to fight four or five candidates who have a realistic chance of winning the republican presidential nomination. will it work? joining us now frank rich, author of new york magazine's cover story this week, donald trump is saving our democracy. this is the most thoughtful and thorough analysis of the trump candidacy written so far this campaign season. frank, thank you very much for joining us. and first of all, congratulations on the big wins for veep last night of the emmys. you took away a bunch last night. >> thank you very much. great to see you, lawrence. a fun night. escape into fake politics, fictional politics from the real circus that's going on.
>> well, this is awful close. >> i know. i don't know if we can top it. >> what do you make -- reading your article before scott walker dropped out today, was the perfect ramp into scott walker dropping out today, it turns out. the analysis of how trump has taken over this campaign for the republicans seem to make today inevitable just as it made the rick perry outcome a while ago inevitable? >> yeah, i think one of the things that trump is doing with all his bull in the china shop antics and, you know, everything we know about him, he's exposing, even if inadvertently just how weak the other candidates are. steve schmidt said, he emasculated jeb bush. and scott walker, you said he. didn't even rise to the level of tim pawlenty. it's amazing but he was, as you know well, the great hope.
he was the man who tamed liberal wisconsin, went up against the unions and, what, less than 1% in the polls? just incredible. >> you also say in the piece one of the things about the trump is doing is that he is -- he is wreaking this havoc on the status quo while actually having no chance of ascending to the presidency. he is really messing things up within that party and isn't going to end up with the presidency. >> right. you can't -- no matter how you slice it you cannot be president of the united states, you cannot win a national election when you've antagonized women, african-americans, hispanics, asian-americans, muslims. i mean, the list is endless. but along the way to the republican convention he's creating this havoc that we're seeing now. i would argue, also, he's creating havoc in the democratic party because his sort of
blunder bust decisiveness is showing up the caution of hillary clinton. >> and you also mentioned that he's causing problems for both parties on the whole campaign financing picture where he keeps talking about being self funding, he keeps making fun of republicans who are dependent on big money and democrats who are dependent on big money contributions. >> exactly. you know in the first debate when he said essentially i bought the clintons, got them to come to my last wedding by contributing to them, that sort of krystalized, i think, for a lot of the american public the clintons' problems with the clinton foundation and also his continued rant about i don't answer to lobbyist, i don't have big donors. he is calling attention to citizens united an the strangle hold it has in terms of these big donors better than any democrat could.
and it must be making people like karl rove -- i'm sure it is making them insane. >> we are now at another one of those thresh holds where people are wondering if trump campaign has peaked because if the latest cnn poll trump is down eight points in the poll. he was up at 32%, now down 8 points from that. it brought on this exchange we're about to see on fox news can bill o'reilly tonight. >> why is trump losing steam? >> well, i think what i would be more comfortable thinking out of this poll is maybe he's leveling off. again, same margin of error, 4 or five, plus or minus five points. to think that he's down eight, i suspect he's probably not down eight but he's down some. sort of what you would think after watching him in the debate. he didn't have a great night. he may indeed be leveling off now and that could be the prelude to a general slow decline. >> and no surprise, frank, donald trump home watching that
started tweeting very angrily at the o'reilly report saying, why don't you have knowledgeable talking heads on your show for a change instead of the same old trump haters. boring. so that's -- >> great television critic on top of everything else. >> that's how the republican front-runner is spending his evening. here we are with that question again. seeing the first significant drop in a poll for donald trump. and the question becomes, has he hit that ceiling? >> we don't know. he's been, you know, pronounced dead ever since he insulted john mccain's p.o.w. record and one of the points in my piece is it's always a turning point for trump. every single -- you thought to lose the first debate by many, the second debate by many. i don't know. i wouldn't predict it. i would say you can't fight something with nothing. and where is this dragon slayer in the republican party who is going to vanquish him. now you have a splintered field that no one is getting traction.
we're hearing about marco rubio, constantly what we heard months ago about scott walker. he's serious. he's got policy chops. he's a great story waiting to happen, great young leader. why is he in single digits in the polls after much acclaimed appearances at debates? jeb bush, it's not there. so there was a carson bump, now there's a fiorina bump. i don't think anyone seriously believes they're going to be the nominee. so they've got a problem. >> could the problem extend to donald trump actually getting the nomination? >> there is -- i don't think we can say it can't happen. if they don't have anyone to fight him with, it could happen. we just don't know. there's so much time between now and the convention. but what i do know is this, he is not somebody who goes quietly into the night.
if he feels he's being robbed or people are ganging up against him, he's going to scream bloody murder. and so are his followers who are basically another version of the base that followed sarah palin. and so the republican party needs those voters, ever what one may think about them. so he's got a lot of leverage, and, you know, if he doesn't lose fair and square in his eyes, it's a mess. and also that pledge he signed, you know, to reince priebus saying he wouldn't run as a third-party candidate is worth about as much as a certificate from the defunk trump university. >> frank rich, that will be the last word on it tonight. appreciate it, frank. >> thank you. coming up, it's day two of the republican debate. the serious republican debate about a muslim being president of the united states. and later, joe biden moves a step closer to running for president, this time with his wife's support.
and, former texas senator wendy davis is here to discuss the potential government shutdown as early as next week over, of course, the funding for planned parenthood. just might be the one. to clean the oceans, to start a movement, or lead a country. it may not be obvious yet, but one of these kids is going to change the world.
jeb bush has admitted to smoking a lot of pot in high school. i mean, a lot. which is all donald trump needed for this instagram video. >> would you have authorized the invasion? >> i would have. it was an act of love. frankly, it's more related to asian people. so 40 years ago i smoked marijuana. ♪ up next, now ben carson has republicans debating whether a muslim is fit to be president of muslim is fit to be president of the united states.
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we'll see. i mean, you know, it's something that could happen. would by comfortable? i don't know if we have to address it right now but i think it is certainly something that could happen. >> you said you had no problem putting a muslim in our cab bet. >> some say it has already happened, frankly. >> donald trump couldn't get through the subject without once again suggest that president obama might be a secret muslim. then came republican presidential candidate ben carson. >> should a president's faith matter? should your faith matter to voters? >> i guess it depends on what that faith is. if it's inconsistent with the values and principles of america, then of course it should matter. but if it fits within the realm of america and consistent with the constitution, no problem. >> so do you believe that islam is consistent with the constitution? >> no, i don't. i do not. i would not advocate that we put a muslim in charge of this nation.
i absolutely would not agree with that. >> joining us now msnbc political analyst and columnist for "the daily beast" and wendy davis and john r. macarthur, president and publisher for "harper's" magazine. wendy davis, hillary clinton went straight at this as she has whenever the republican goes into these strange territories. it's one of those things where it's a completely unnecessary controversy that the republicans have drummed up for themselves. >> it's true. and what's fascinating is that they seem not to have learned from the last presidential election cycle, where they're exclusionary conversations created a real problem for them. and clearly hillary clinton is seizing on the understanding that most americans do not support the zenofaux bibb nationalist arguments presented by most of the republican candidates right now.
>> let's look at this poll indicating the american public's view on this, who they could vote for based on various categories. catholics, 93% say they can vote for a catholic, a woman, 92%. black, 92%, hispanic 91%. jewish, 91%. now to the next drop, below the 90s. that's mormon at 81%. that became relevant four years ago during romney's campaign. gay or lesbian, 44% would vote. evangelical christian, 73%. muslim down at 60% which is right above athiest and 58% and the very worst thing you could be is of course a athiest socialist. >> bernie sanders, at 47%. >> so, again, this is one of those things that only the republican campaign could have walked in to. >> yeah.
you know, it's really perplexing because the american public has moved past this. i mean, those -- poll results were very striking. we talk about mitt romney being a mormon. it was a nonissue in 2012. we have past this because of a country. not because everybody knows article vi of the constitution prohibits a religious test of a higher office but because we have grown as a people. so it's another reminder that today's republican party in some respects is mired not only in the 20th century -- but we religious bigotry. as ben carson said, inconsistent with the constitution, somebody's faith by definition, regardless of what they're like as an individual and human being, inconsistent. that is about a least american idea in politics today.
people talk about republican, we're pro america, go america. that's not what america is now. america today is that we do not allow or tolerate this kind of bigotry in our politics. >> john macarthur, one thing that has happened in the last generation of politicians, they've all become religious exhibitionist, they are all eager to tell you about their relationship to god and their religion. donald trump very eager to tell you about his presbyterian credentials and all that stuff. none of them say that that's a private matter, that's something i'm not going to discuss. >> yeah, i would bring up barack obama. i mean, not as muslim but as kind of a not very serious christian. he had to work very hard to present himself as a christian candidate, precisely because of his heritage and his african father.
and the dance that he performed with his former pastor was a strange, strange thing to watch. i don't take his christianism that seriously. i think he was doing it largely for show. i don't think he's deeply religious president or deeply religious man. he's certainly not a muslim. but you have to present yourself as a religious person. and i disagree with john. i think that the mormonism was a real problem for mitt romney. southern baptists, as i think you know, as wendy knows, there are southern baptists who would sooner cut their wrist than vote for a mormon. >> but he won overwhelmingly in all of those southern baptist areas. he lost -- >> a lot of people didn't vote. people simply didn't vote. they weren't going to vote for a mormon. >> but he won so-called southern baptist states. >> overwhelmingly. >> mitt romney is in this story tonight, by the way.
tweeting an hour ago saying, of course, no religious test for the presidency. every faith adds to our national character. wendy, that's what you would expect to hear from someone whose religion, john's right, was brought up anyway by certain people during the primary on the republican side. >> no question. and i think that mitt romney understands that long-term this is damaging for the republican party. and i think there are a number of people who feel that way and are horrified to see the direction that the dialogue is taking in the republican primary debates. >> john, on the issue of barack obama's religiousity being fake -- >> exaggerated. >> then they all are. i mean, barack obama has presented as convincing and full a christian faith as any president we've ever had. >> yeah. i mean, i think he actually has -- there are some things to suggest that he actually, you
know, has become more of a christian and not just after he went into politics but after he arrived in chicago and started dealing with the churches when he was a community organizer. look, there's really only a couple of presidents in recent history who had what you could describe as a deep faith. george w. bush and jimmy carter. the rest of them, including, you know, ronald reagan, were cafeteria christians. you know, they picked and choose. >> i do not understand the basis on which we invade the minds of these guys and say, i think this one is truly religious and that one isn't. i mean, i know priests who have doubted the existence of god while they are priests. >> all i can say is two weeks ago i was -- i'm writing a book about jimmy carter. i went to his church in plains, georgia, and i heard for the second time this summer him teach sunday school. and there is no doubt about the depth of his --
>> that's a hard place to fake it. >> we're going to take quick break. we're going to be back. our next guest coming up says there is now, he's going to figure it out mathematically, a 75% chance the united states government should shut down next week over planned parenthood funding. and carly fiorina paid a visit to "the tonight show" right here in this building tonight and, yes, she said a word or two about donald trump. we'll get a sneak preview of that.
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all of the republican candidates want to defund planned parenthood. many are willing to shut down our government to do it no matter the consequences for our country. i'd like them, along with the republican candidates, to meet the mom who caught her cancer early thanks to a screening or the teenager who avoided an unintended pregnancy because she had access to birth control or the survivor of sexual assault who got emergency contraception. >> that was hillary clinton this weekend at the new hampshire democratic party convention. congress now has exactly nine days to pass a budget and avoid a government shutdown. the most contentious issue that could lead to a government shutdown is funding for planned parenthood. despite the looming deadline the house will not be back in session in thursday when the pope speaks before a joint session.
before the house left on friday the house once again voted to defund planned parenthood. that bill is not expected to pass the senate and, even if it did, i'll it would not have enough vote to be veto proof. tomorrow the senate will vote on a bill banning abortions after 20 weeks. here's what harry reid had to say about that legislation. >> 20-week bill is just a way for senator mcconnell to pander the extremists in his party who is once again holding government hostage so they can attack the health of women. this legislation is going nowhere. >> on the campaign trail marco rubio spoke to kcci, cbs affiliate in iowa, about why he wants to defund planned parenthood. >> now what you've done is you've created an industry. now what you've done is created an incentive for people to be pushed into abortions so the tissues can be harvested and sold for profit. i think you've created an industry now where you create the situation where very much you created an incentive for
people, not just to look forward to having more abortions but being able to sell that fetal tissue for making a profit off of it. >> joining us now stan, a contributor for his magazine. back us wendy davis. wendy davis, your reaction about marco rubio's statement there about what he perceived women's incentive to have an abortion. >> i hope women all over this country are listening to that kind of dialogue. i think that what the republicans are doing on this issue, once again, is endangering the republican party and damaging it long term. they are talking about cutting off funding not for abortion care. they're talking about cutting off funding to women seeking breast cancer screens, contraceptive care, hiv and other std screens, and they're willing to shut down the government to do it.
we know in texas what the consequence of that action is. we saw this exact chapter written in our history book there. and as a consequence of it, over 150,000 real women lost the only health care that they had. our medicaid birth rate shot up. it cost taxpayers over $130 million in one year alone in extra medicaid birth costs. so not only does it harm real women, it costs taxpayers more. it makes absolutely no sense. and it truly is political demagoguery of the very worst and most dangerous kind. >> stan, you've made a mathematical calculation here that there is now a 75% chance of a government shutdown next week. describe the dynamics that get us there. >> well, i actually started back in july saying there was about a 1 in 3 chance or 30% chance. but every time there was another issue we added to it, it just started to make it worse.
at this point you've got to say there's a three out of four chance that the government will shut down. and it's only because we've added this politically toxic take no prisoners, highly emotional issue like planned parenthood. you can't compromise on this one. this is a binary. it's either yes or no. if it was a budget issue, you could compromise somewhere in between, but you can't do that with planned parenthood. shutting down the government over it really makes very little sense. >> this is what jeb bush said about this in iowa today. >> i defunded planned parenthood when i was governor. i -- i -- [ applause ] we actually redirected funding away from sex education, kind of traditional sex education to abstinence education. >> we've come a long way from his father being a supporter of planned parenthood. >> indeed we have. his mother as well. and i think, again, it shows the direction that the party is headed. and it's not in touch with american people.
and american values. the polling shows that americans very much support the non-abortion care services of planned parenthood. americans very much support the whole services, including abortion care that planned parenthood provides. they understand that they're appealing to a small base of voters in the republican primary. the question is how do they come back from this? how in the world do candidates who have expressed the anti-immigrant, anti-women sentiments that they've expressed in their conversation thus far possibly come back and attract middle american voters who want instead to be hearing about what we're going to do to keep college costs low, what we're going to do to close the wage gap, what we're going to do to increase the minimum wage and to create more family supportive environments in the workplace? these are the conversations that are taking place on the democratic side of the aisle.
these are the things that hillary clinton has been talking about from day one. and they are reflective, i believe, of american's value, not what we're hearing on the republican side. >> wendy may be right, lawrence, but you've got to remember that after the last shutdown two years ago the republicans won more seats in the house and took over the senate. they won nine seats in the senate and took over the majority. so there are a lot of republicans in the house in particular who are saying what's the downside? we shut down government last time and we ended up picking up seats, winning over the senate. what's to make anyone think we won't do the same or at least as well as we're doing now? so what's the political downside we show our constituency, our base, the base that wendy talked about that we're all for them, that we're going to the mat, and even though it ultimately can't be successful given the dynamics of the process these days, that doesn't mean they won't give it a shot and shut down the government to try to show that they were willing. >> and wendy has a point that you can energize certain supporters and certain congressional districts by doing this.
but on the national level, in a presidential campaign, it seems to me one of the -- big downsides is you get people like marco rubio talking about what he believes the incentives are, the workings of the minds of women who have abortions. he's actually trying to portray this as some kind of profit-making scheme for women going in to planned parenthood to have abortions as if they're somehow participating in this and there's not a woman you can talk to who has had an abortion who doesn't consider it a very grim thing to have to end up choosing in their lives. >> a very serious decision that i don't believe any woman confronts without giving incredibly serious thought and reflection to. and for him to assert that women are somehow having an inducement to become pregnant and have an abortion for the profit is so absurd it's almost unmanageable
that someone would even say such a thing. >> stan collender, we're going to break it there. appreciate it. coming up, in tonight's rewrite, donald trump and fox news. and next, what do donald trump and vladimir putin have in common? carly fiorina answered that question for jimmy fallon on "the tonight show" tonight. we will have a preview of that next. hey babe, last one home cooks? ♪ ♪ ♪ another tie. order in? next time i drive. the right-sized nissan rogue. ♪
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at 10:00 p.m. tonight donald trump tweeted, i am having a really hard time watching fox news. well, welcome to last word, donald. donald trump is still angry bill o'reilly tonight showed the same cnn poll that we have all been showing that has donald trump losing support but still the front-runner. donald trump might also have a hard time watching the "tonight show" starring jimmy fallon tonight. here's a sneak peek. >> donald trump has recently said that if vladimir putin says he wants to meet with trump when he comes here. and that he wants to sit down and have a conversation with him. you've met putin. >> i have. the two of them have a lot in common, actually. but we'll just leave it at that. do you do an imitation of putin? i could tell you if it was good or not. >> just basically talk like this. and that's all. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> he was kind of like bursting out of the buttons in his shirt.
he's kind of a barrel chested guy and proud of it. >> if he's wearing a shirt, it's a good day. >> it says here the full interview airs on nbc tonight after your late local news. if you needed me to tell you that, boy. up next, in the rewrite, donald trump proven wrong by a major general in the united states army. the e-class has 11 intelligent driver-assist systems. it recognizes pedestrians and alerts you. warns you about incoming cross-traffic. cameras and radar detect dangers you don't. and it can even stop by itself. so in this crash test, one thing's missing: a crash. the 2016 e-class. see your authorized dealer for exceptional offers through mercedes-benz financial services. nobody's hurt,but there will you totstill be pain.new car.
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people were killed trying to find him. >> it's true what donald said. >> a traitor. >> and of course bergdahl's father who some people seem to think is as much of a traitor as his son. >> the reason i said that robert bergdahl looked like a muslim is that he looks like a muslim. >> that's it. case closed. the guy's a traitor who got six soldiers killed when they were searching for him. that's after bergdahl walked away from the base in afghanistan and into the arms of the enemy. all of the people who reached that conclusion without actually investigating the case now have a big problem. that big problem is major general kenneth r.dahl who actually did investigate the case. general dahl interviewed 57 witnesses in building what could be the prosecution case in a court-martial of bowe bergdahl. on friday general bahl testified at a preliminary hearing in the case.
he said that after interviewing bowe bergdahl and 56 other witnesses he believes that sergeant bergdahl has been truthful. general dahl said, he absolutely believed the things he was perceiving were true, the general said that sergeant bergdahl's beliefs were, quote, unwarranted but genuinely held. the story general dahl told is that sergeant bergdahl left his base with a plan to walk 18 miles to another base forward operating base. bowe bergdahl wanted to complain to the commanding general at the other base about problems back at his base, problems that bowe bergdahl thought could endanger his platoon. sergeant bergdahl believed he would be able to get a meeting with the commanding general if he arrived at the base in such a shocking way. general dahl says that bowe bergdahl probably would have been allowed to speak to general if he had made it to the forward operating base. instead, sergeant bergdahl was
captured by the taliban and held in captivity for five years. also testifying at that hearing on friday was terrence russell, one of the military's top debriefers of prisoners. terrence russell said that sergeant bergdahl's treatment by the taliban was the worst that he had heard of any american prisoner of war since vietnam. mr. russell said, the level of wildly inaccurate speculation about sergeant bergdahl is outrageous. he did the best job he could do and i respect him for it. general dahl said the six soldiers killed search for bowe bergdahl is the stuff of mythology. general dahl said no soldiers were killed in the search for bergdahl. general dahl said sergeant bergdahl did not desert to join the taliban. general dahl did not say whether bowe bergdahl should be court-martialed but he did say, quote, i do not believe there is a jail sentence at the end of this procedure.
i think it would be inappropriate. now we know that donald trump is not going to rewrite his stories about bowe bergdahl to include everything that major general kenneth dahl has now said about the case. donald trump will probably choose one of two options. one, simply to stop talking about bowe bergdahl or, two, just keep saying the same things about bowe bergdahl, just keep making stuff up. >> when we get a traitor named bergdahl, a dirty, rotten traitor, who, by the way, when he deserted, six young beautiful people were killed trying to find him. >> it's absolutely true. >> the general investigator in the case says not a traitor and no one was killed trying to find him. what will donald trump say next? skrch... skrch...
joe biden has lined up a very important supporter for his possible presidential campaign. his wife. that's next. about hugging tree. it's not about being wasteful either. ♪ you just gotta find that balance. ♪ where taking care of yourself takes care of more than just yourself. ♪ lease an mkz hybrid for $299 a month only at your lincoln dealer. ♪ ♪ hp instant ink can save you up to 50% on ink
delivered to your door ...so print all you want and never run out. plans start at $2.99 a month. ♪ the most affordable way to print. hp instant ink. so you're a small business expert from at&t? yeah, give me a problem and i've got the solution. well, we have 30 years of customer records. our cloud can keep them safe and accessible anywhere. my drivers don't have time to fill out forms. tablets. keep it all digital. we're looking to double our deliveries. our fleet apps will find the fastest route. oh, and your boysenberry apple scones smell about done. ahh, you're good. i like to bake. add new business services with at&t and get up to $500 in total savings. yesterday on "meet the press" chuck todd of broke this news about a possible biden presidential run. >> a little news this morning about joe biden and the potential candidacy.
i want to tell you about one myth that sources of mine want debunked and that's this idea that jill biden his wife is not onboard. in fact that is not true. vice president wife is very much onboard for 2016 run should the vice president decide to do it. >> chuck todd wrote for nbcnews.com on sunday that jill biden is 100% onboard with a presidential run. later sunday james gleason, confirmed in a statement that, of course, dr. biden would be onboard if her husband decides to run for president but they haven't made that decision yet. in a new interview with "america," the national catholic review released today, vice president biden says a decision on presidential run may not come in time for him to run and still win. >> we're just not, you know, not quite there yet and it may not get there in time to make it feasible to be able to run and succeed because there are certain windows that will close.
but if that's it, that's it. but i -- it's not like i can rush it. >> we're back with john alter, wendy davis, and john macarthur. wendy davis, he's going to have to make this decision within the next few weeks, it seems for various deadlines. the polling indicates that your candidate suffers mightily with joe biden in the race. we have cnn polls showing hillary clinton at 42%, bernie sanders, 24%, joe biden 22%. when you take joe biden out of there she pops up to 57%. so it seems like they're going after the same voter. >> she certainly does better at the outset if he's not in the race. and i think that the thing to really pay attention to in those numbers is that even with the talk, the increasing likelihood that vice president biden might join the race, she still is
significantly ahead of both him and bernie sanders. i think that speaks great volumes to the trust and faith that the democratic primary voters have placed in mrs. clinton's candidacy. >> john macarthur, what do you make of the dynamics of the field now? >> i think hillary clinton is out of gas. i wrote this in a newspaper column recently after watching her on msnbc interviewed by andrea mitchell and i see her fading and i see her even if she's forced on us in the primary process, losing in the general election to jeb bush. i think the democrats, the party managers should be thinking at an alternative and the alternative i propose was al gore and elizabeth warren. i think biden is going to be viewed as a retread. it allows bush to run against obama as opposed to another candidate. and gore has already beaten the
bushes. he's acceptable to the party regulars. and warren would rally all the diseffected sanders voters who are going to be very angry when he bets pushed out of the race. so i think the party, if you're as horrified by the idea of a bush restoration as i am, a bush dynasty, you got to come up with another solution. hillary clinton is not the one. not going to win. >> but john macarthur, you look at the republican field now and bush dynasty doesn't look like a terribly scary prospect right now. >>ee, i don't see jeb bush being the republican nominee. i do think a democrat would have trouble with a marco rubio or john kasich, kind of a bush without the baggage. so it's not going to be a cake walk for the democrats. it's just too early to know whether hillary clinton is out of gas. she might be, she might not be. we've seen so many cases in recent cycles that you and i have covered where things look so different in january than they did the previous september.
and then they look different again in march and april from the way they looked in january. the problem are the deadlines. as joe biden indicated. >> what are the real deadlines? >> the real deed deadlines are december. he doesn't actually have to decide, or al gore, have to decide by october/november. but by december you have these filing deadlines for the big primary states that come up in the winter and spring of 2016. and so they do have to make some kind of a decision by then or they won't be on the ballot in those big states and can't get the delegates to get the nomination. but there is nothing making joe biden have to decide before hillary clinton testifies on these e-mails in october. and where al gore or somebody else to get interested they have a couple of months to make a decision. >> and wendy davis, in this cnn poll which showed donald trump with his first decline in -- still front-runner but going down, hillary clinton still
front-runner and going up. >> exactly. >> it's the first time we've seen her go up in one of these polls. >> that's exactly right. i think it's because she's speaking to the issues that american people care about. she's talking about income inequality. she's talking about racial injustices and the criminal justice arena. she's talking about creating a workplace where families have an opportunity to take leave if needed for childbearing or to take care of a loved one. she's talking about making sure that we protect women's access to reproductive rights. she's talking about closing increasing -- excuse me -- the minimum wage. these are the issues on the minds of everyday americans and the more they hear her speak out on those, i think the greater their confidence becomes in her candidacy for president. >> john, what about that? here's this cnn poll where she's going up. >> well, i think she's so tied up in knots with the democratic
party establishment and wall street that when somebody -- sanders has been very polite up to this point. if he decides to go after her more directly about her relationship with, you know, i'm more concerned about her relationship with people like roger altman and the wall street crowd that they raised money from, the clinton global initiatives that we talk about so -- we don't really talk about it seriously, are all about shaking down campaign donors. it's not about doing non-profit work. >> i mean, i -- i got to take issue with that. raising money for good causes. >> it's 11:00. if you will stay here at the table we're going to finish this conversation online another few minutes but right now it's got to be the end of this show. thanks for being on the show. we're going to continue the conversation. before we go, programs note. hope francis arrives in washington tomorrow.
msnbc special coverage of pope francis in america will be led tomorrow by brian williams beginning tomorrow at 3:00 p.m. eastern. chris hayes is up next. i hope we can have a responsible i hope we can have a responsible discussion and the he dropped out of the race all together. this is the candidate who mocked donald trump as someone unprepared to be president. to use his word, an apprentice. now walker walked off the field as texas governor rick perry did and other candidates might as well begin their current level of support nationwide which is zero.